Older Plumbers – Stanley Toilet Cistern Qs

My 60-year-old (maybe older) Stanley cistern with wooden exterior and copper interior needed a new float-arm washer, which I replaced, and in doing so lightly nudged the vertical plastic pipe (similar shape to a drinking straw and reaches to above water level) above the stopper valve. I had done this on previous occasions with no problem but this time it broke off down the bottom. The plastic is probably brittle from old age.

Two plumbing-supply places in Palmerston North couldn't help with parts and there's another I can try in Feilding, but both said I'm unlikely to find anything. They only stock the appropriate washers now.

My questions are: What exactly does the pipe do, and do I really need it? And if not, what's the best way to block off the hole through the stopper assembly?

I first guessed it might be a stabiliser to prevent the stopper assembly juddering when it opens, 'cos I've seen a similar pipe in illustrations fitting into a ring near the top which might stop it wobbling. Mine wasn't attached to anything except at the bottom. But when I saw the pipe and stopper assembly are hollow all the way through, I wondered if its just for removing smells from the flush-water pipe to the toilet bowl. If so, I might not need it because I live with only a cat so am the only one creating smells and the toilet room is well ventilated to the outside and well away from living quarters.

I've been an invalid since 1989 but am now retired and much better off on super, so intend to spend a few tens of thousands on lots of house repairs and replacements as I save the money. Replacing toilet and cistern will be one item, but there are more important and expensive things first, like new woodburner and flue ASAP, insulation, and replacing old wiring. Have already re-roofed house and garage and just this month recovered from that cost.

Apologies for the encyclopedia :-) and thanks in advance for any advice.

The pipe probably allows air to enter the pipe to the toilet pan, otherwise the water won't flow very fast when flushing.
I'd be keeping the cistern, as it's better than modern ones.

The only plastic in my older Stanley cisterns was attached to the inlet valve (ballcock) to take the incoming water under the surface to quiet it. My cisterns both had overflow pipes going through the wall to outside. Some generic diagrams of older cisterns show a tube like the one you are describing that acts as an internal overflow but it would have to be a lot bigger than a straw.

the valve cover is held done by a couple of brass screws, undo them and the cover will lift out, the wire has to come off the top of the valve assembly to lift the cover, then lift the valve out ( usually cover in black gunk from years of water )
The plastic tube was a common size, from memory 5/16ths outer, suspect if you check the garden stores you'll find a stiff irrigation riser about the same size, just trim it to the right length, it may need to sit in a cup of hot water to soften so you can push it into the valve assembly
It acts as an overflow to some degree but its main purpose is as someone mentioned, to allow air into the dropper tube while flushing, the bit that wasn't mentioned is that if that tube is blocked the flush will not work properly - you have to hold the handle down for the entire flush, that air entry allows the shaped water flow to hold the valve open, without the air the valve will slam shut as soon as you release the handle

without the pipe there you will have a constant leak into the bowl, you can simple block the hole in the valve with a sharpened stick for a few days while you sort a replacement - but the flushing will no longer be automatic, yuo'll have to resort to manually holding the handle down

you may also find the plastic pipe has broken and left a part of it in the valve - this will have to be dug out before trying to get a replacement, otherwise you won't know what size to get

some actually had a brass spigot cast onto the top of the valve body and a plastic pipe pushed over that, you won't know until you get the valve out and have a look - treat it gentle though, its old and maybe very fragile
if there is a spigot with the remains of a plastic pipe on it you might try warming it before trying to remove the bit of plastic

Thanks Skin1235 - useful info. I've had the valve out since the pipe broke and use a 10-litre bucket to quickly shoot the water into the cistern to provide enough force to flush the dunny. Took the valve to the plumbing suppliers, but the young fellas at both weren't very keen to find anything that might help.

The pipe is about 8mm OD and about 5.5 mm ID (eyesight's not too good). It was screwed onto a thread on the shaft and when it broke it left a small collar which I've now removed. There is still some thread inside the bottom of the pipe but it doesn't want to easily screw back on and as you say it's probably fragile so might just break again if I try to force it. Maybe it's better to find another suitable pipe as you describe.

These two photos show the story -- top and bottom view of the valve and you can see the little collar still on the end of the shaft in the top view. The thread it was screwed onto has that pale green powdery stuff that bronze statues often have on them -- forget what its called -- but you can see it in both photos. That might be what's preventing the pipe screw back on so I'll try brushing it off tomorrow. Oops, later today. Is there a suitable lubricant that might help without polluting the water?

1. Top of valve
https://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/763378665.jpg 2. Bottom https://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/763380533.jpg

We used to have a retired plumber in the village who was very useful to have around, charged peanuts for doing small jobs, and had a massive workshop full of decades worth of thousands of parts. I'd be surprised if there wasn't something there that would fix my problem, but it was all dumped when he died. :-(

I mightn't be able to get back here until Sunday night or even Monday , but will eventually.

Have you tried demolition yards.

It should be possible to drill out the broken bit and glue the pipe back in with Araldite or other strong glue. The drill bit should be the same size as the outside of the pipe.

dbb, I've threaded a short piece of copper pipe to replace those plastic ones before, that 8mm is actually old school 5/16th, it uses old school 5/16th NC thread ( National Coarse), only needs about 3 turns to hold, copper is soft enough to just jam a nut onto it if you don't have a die nut - but verdigris ( thats that green stuff, lol) can build up, especially when moist, and block the pipe

meanwhile you have a valve that constantly leaks right now - just trim a small stick to a point and jam it in there, only needs to block the hole, doesn't need to be longer than what it takes to grip it with your fingers to screw it in
this will allow you to use the cistern - remember it will be manual flush, ie only flush for as long as you hold the lever down - but will give you time to source what you need, and save you having to run buckets in and out all the time

Resurrecting thread to say thanks to Skin1235 and others -- the rigid irrigation riser did the job. A packet of five 400mm long was was only $7.00, so I have four left.

Had to soften the riser pipe with boiling water and force it on to the valve using rubber gloves to get a good grip. After replacing the valve, the cistern wouldn't do a full flush, so took it out and checked again to see that the pipe was clear and made certain that it was with a piece of wire, then replaced it.

Still no full flush. The inside diameter of the riser is 4mm whereas the original pipe is 5mm, so I thought that might be the problem -- not letting enough air through.

On the next trip to town, checked at another establishment and their risers were also 4mm ID.

After a few days of holding the lever down to get a full flush, I thought I'd leave it because at least I had the option of doing a half flush if I wanted it, but after a few more days the valve started doing a full flush on its own and has worked perfectly ever since.

So here's the procedure for anyone else:

Stanley toilet cistern -- replacing broken plastic air pipe on flush valve

1. Turn off water to cistern or tie the float arm up to close the inlet valve.
2. Remove flush valve from cistern and remove any residue of the old pipe from the valve. Note inside diameter of broken pipe.
3. At a hardware store or gardening centre buy a packet of 5x 400mm rigid risers ($7 in 2018) which are used for under-ground irrigation. Check that the inside diameter of the riser will fit the valve -- 4 or 5mm should do the job.
4. Cut one riser to the same length as the original pipe when on the valve. Stanley knife with sharp blade works well.
5. Soak the uncut end in boiled water and using rubber gloves, and before it cools, push or thread the riser onto the thread where the original pipe was. You might have to soak the riser again in the near-boiling water.
6. Ensure the inside of the riser and valve fitting are clear all the way through.
7. Replace valve in cistern and free the float arm or turn on water.
8. The valve might not initially do a full flush without holding the lever down, but give it a week or two as it will likely start working on its own.