Electrical certificate of compliance

A couple of years ago we had our hot water cylinder replaced with an outdoor one. This required the wiring to be re-routed to an outside wall, which needed an additional length of cable. This was done and the plumber then installed the cylinder. Worked ok for 2 years then suddenly had no hot water. Original electrician couldn't come and recommended someone else, who came and found that the additional cable had been joined to the old cable using a junction box and this had melted and could have caused a fire. The second electrician thought a connection had been left loose causing arcing. He fixed the problem at a very reasonable cost of $116. I have paid this but forwarded a copy of his invoice to the company that made the error, asking for comment Two weeks and no response yet, which I think is pretty poor. But the question I have is, what kind of work needs a certificate of compliance? I note my original invoice shows a charge of $25 for this, but I didn't get one. And if certain work requires such a certificate, why would there be a charge for it on the invoice? Surely if it is mandatory it is part of the job?

Photo of the burnt junction box:
https://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/842306434.jpg

Just to go through your points/questions.

There's nothing wrong with using a junction box to extend a cable. Every cable in your house has at least 2 connections - at the switchboard and at the appliance, or socket, or light. Another connection in the middle makes no difference.

As you can see, the connection didn't catch on fire. The electrician that fixed it shouldn't really say "it could have caught fire", because that is a very small possibility. Electrical parts are made of material which doesn't readily catch alight. Usually, the connection fails and the current stops, which means there's no more heat. Just like in your case. It happens all the time with switches in power points, the plug connections, light switches or lampholders. Probably 99.999% of the time, there is no fire.

As for the certificate. You should have received a certificate of compliance. The company is required to keep them for 7 years and supply them on request. So you can still ask for it if you like. Back then, there was a cost for the certificates. Now, the certificates themselves are free, but there is still a cost to prepare them and keep the records. So there can still be a charge or at least a labour cost for preparing it.

For the repair that has been done now, there is a different certificate you should have received called an "electrical safety certificate" for the replacement of the junction box.

As for why the connection failed after 2 years, there's any number of reasons. Faulty part or poor workmanship. If you had waited for the original company to repair, they might have done it for free, or a lower cost. But to expect them to contribute towards someone else repairing it isn't reasonable. The same thing could happen in any number of places in the wiring at any time. The cost was reasonable as you said. And the same thing could happen anywhere else in your wiring next week or next month.

Usually most people don't have any "preventative maintenance" done on their wiring like they do with other things. They just expect it to work year after year. Quite often if I'm working on an older switchboard, I'll go through and tighten all the connections. Sometimes there are loose connections with no sign of damage. Every situation is different.

I'm not sure what outcome you are expecting? But yes, poor communication from the first company.

you'd think if the electrician had to re route the cable he would of run a new one from the switchboard to where was needed - seems like you ended up with a cowboy

My emails to the first company expressed no expectations on my part, just asked for comments, and included the photo of the junction box as shown on here. That's what is so disappointing. And this company obviously didn't want to come back as they said they were too busy and recommended the guy that we got to do the work. I have in my second communication (after two weeks with no reply to the first) asked for a copy of the certificate that I was charged for.

Since July 2013 *all* prescribed electrical work must have an Electrical Safety Certificate (ESC) and most work also a Certificate of Compliance (CoC).

The electrician commits an offence if they do not provide a copy of the CoC/GSC to the client within a timeline set in the regulations.

The regulations also allow the homeowner to request a copy of the certification from the installing electrician. They must provide it within 10 working days or another offence is committed.

Provision of the certification is mandatory but as to whether they can put a cost of the certification, that's a commercial matter and not covered in the safety regulations. ($25 is pretty cheap, you should see what some gasfitters charge).

Thanks for your response. Seeing that I have been charged, I would have thought that I would receive a copy automatically. But my primary gripe is that I have received no response at all. I had no particular expectations, but if they can't even give me the courtesy of a reply, then I will wait and see if they comply with the 10 day requirement, and if they don't then make the appropriate complaint. They need to extend common courtesy in order to get it in return.

Why would you do additional work that would be charged to the client, if it isn't required?

Cables are joined all the time. That's the whole point of having electricians. To run cables and join those cables to appliances and stuff. One more join in the middle to extend the cable makes no difference.

except in this example it " could " have caught fire

But it didn't catch fire. Exactly as it is designed - not to catch fire.

This sort of stuff happens dozens of times every day.

How often do you hear of an electrical fire that wasn't from a multi board, or a heater etc?

So "could" a wire looping to another powerpoint from a previous powerpoint in a circuit. It is no different. it is a join.
Your house is full of such joins. from powerpoint to powerpoint, from light switch to light switch. How many fires are there from all the millions of joins in this country?

joins are all fine and dandy in fixed wiring as long as the joint is accessible. it is a no no to say join a cable inside a wall then cover it up with gib, never to be seen again. I assume from the op description, or lack of saying the 2nd sparkie had to remove some gib or similar to get at the connection box, that the join was in an accessible place !

It can be quite easy to think youve done a connection up tight but as I have found often the screw thread is bad & after time causes the burn you see . Just an honest mistake . You probly lost the COC . Dont lose any sleep over it .

Never happens though, in my experience, if you twist all conductors together, then the screw is just backup (in a connector). That's the way i was taught in the 70's(NZED), and not only to twist, but also double if it will fit in (and i also pay attention to where the screw is biting in, from a not cutting into main strands when tightening well, point of view)
But poor tightening or not twisting(lazy workmanship) and a resulting similar looking damage, is way too common.

Out of interest, aren't the COC booklets triple-copies? If so, does one copy get sent to a central register somewhere or is the only copy (other than the customers) that in the sparkies book on his premises?

The carbon inked form pad has gone the way of the dodo. Under the current gas and electrical regulations prescribed work is divided into three categories: Low Risk; High Risk; and General Work. All must be certified and *some* of the details on High Risk work must be entered on a database run by WorkSafe.

The sparkie or gasfitter *must* supply a copy of the certification to the client within a time limit set out in the regulations (regardless of any payment dispute) otherwise they commit an offence. They are also obliged to keep a copy for seven years.

What an absolutely idiotic reply. What if it was a flat roof? Would you expect to pay for that, when a perfectly adequate junction box was used. You sound like one of those "Cowboys" that goes around escalating jobs to make work.

Why would you not, twist the end strands before inserting.
Not twisting multi strand wires for any type connector, doesn't make sense, even when soldering ends.
Applies to any electrical job

If it's done properly