I was about to add more insulation in the sleep out and the room has 4 down lights is it possible to change the lights for ones that don’t need the heat clearance and use the same holes ?
martin11,
Jun 13, 4:14am
We replaced the down lights we had in our home and used led ones which were slightly bigger 5-6 mm and could take batts straight over them . No problem to do .
tweake,
Jun 13, 4:27am
its best thing you can do. old downlights let huge amounts of air up through them which sucks in cold air down at floor level. just make sure the led ones are sealed and sealed to the ceiling.
many decades ago, my old trick when working in the ceiling spaces was to turn on the interior house lights. they fire so much light up the air gap, that it lights up the whole ceiling and i don't need to have my torch on.
bill1451,
Jun 13, 7:03am
Even led,s will give off heat especially the driver(electronics) and if you cover the led this heat will build up. I would be leaving about 25mm clearance around the led and leave the top open, heat loss will be minimal. What you are trying to achieve is some air flow around the fitting and make sure the fitting is at least 25mm clearance from any timber.
bill1451,
Jun 13, 7:06am
And while you are IN THE CEILING ensure that any wiring is not covered by batts as this will cause heating and down rate the cable, i.e. lower its current carrying capacity.
johotech,
Jun 13, 7:52am
There are plenty of options for LED fittings which can have insulation installed over them. Almost all of them are IC or IC-F rating now and they can be covered with insulation.
tweake,
Jun 13, 7:54am
the problem is that the heat loss is not minimal. its actually quite a lot. its not like you can cover 90% and get 90% less losses, it doesn't actually work that way. insulation needs to be continuous. add in that there is often a lot of downlights, so its a lot of area left uninsulated.
the other thing is the lights should be cooled by the room, not by the ceiling. its gets far hotter in summer in the ceiling than in the house. plus there is typically a fair bit of air movement under the batts on the room side of the batts.
how do you think it works when people have nearly a meter of insulation in the ceiling?
macman26,
Jun 13, 12:19pm
Most LED’s can be covered. Some drivers can and some can’t. Check before you cover the drivers. Just means you mount the drivers above the insulation.
vivac,
Jun 13, 9:48pm
Most LEDs lights are now ICF which means they can be covered with insulation and right next to building materials like wood. Most of the heat is actually generated by the Led chip, drivers do get warm but nowhere near as hot as the fittings themselves.
vivac,
Jun 13, 9:51pm
If replacing incandescent or halogen lights with LED this wont be an issue as the LED will have a much lower power draw anyway.
martin11,
Jun 14, 1:57am
Never heard of this being an issue most houses have wiring covered by Batts either in walls or the ceiling
johotech,
Jun 14, 3:15am
Wiring on one side of the cables is normally fine. But if the insulation monkeys have buried the cables completely within the insulation, then that can cause a problem.
If they had read the insulation standard (NZS4246) they would know when they should consult an electrician before adding insulation.
It is a good idea to get an electrician in to check before insulation is installed, because the installers usually don't GAF. On the other hand, homeowner don't want to pay for an electrician either, so it can be just as much their fault. Your house is only your biggest asset, and they are generally highly combustible. So maybe people should think about why they are so tight some times :(
bill1451,
Jun 14, 7:11am
Not in my own house ignore it and suffer the consequences.
bill1451,
Jun 14, 7:12am
Anyway since when do walls get warm or hot, heat rises.
bill1451,
Jun 14, 7:13am
Meter of insulation, where. antartica
tweake,
Jun 14, 7:22am
Alaska, Canada, some parts of usa.
martin11,
Jun 14, 6:09pm
Never had a problem in the 55 years of owning houses including rentals ,and some had the old fabric covered wiring with Batts installed over it .
tweake,
Jun 15, 1:51am
much the same. i've never heard or seen an issue i've crawl throw hundreds if not thousands of ceilings. even places with the old steel tube wiring.
you would have to be drawing max amps for an extended period of time and even then they only get mildly warm. had that at a place i used to work at. it simply blew the fuse. with modern circuit breakers i doubt you could even draw that much for very long.
vivac,
Jun 15, 4:02am
Im the same, i have never seen insulation covered cables have a problem, i think it was a bit of being "oversafe" when they made that rule.
johotech,
Jun 15, 5:19am
I've had to repair old cable that have blown from overheating due to insulation. 40 year old PVC which had been pulled into the original steel conduit. When the newly required (rental) insulation was installed, of course it just went over the top. Even being in steel conduit didn't save it. It lasted when there was two frugal old ladies living in the house, but then you put 6 students in there, each with a heater in their room, and it didn't last the first winter. Of course it blew on a Saturday as well.
tweake,
Jun 15, 5:32am
it wasn't the old rubber stuff? i can't imagen tps being pulled into the steel tube, that would have to be tiny.
johotech,
Jun 15, 7:16am
I should have mentioned it was the mains. It was old PVC pulled into the mains conduit. Probably done around the 60's or 70's. But it was only 4mm² or 6mm² max. Eventually it melted.
golfaholic2,
Jun 16, 4:11am
Having a good foot + of insulation can cause issues . Im having to extend the cables from the driver to the downlights to keep the driver free (above) from the insulation . pain in the arse
vivac,
Jun 16, 6:04am
Sounds more like overloading than the insulation tipping it over the edge.
trade4us2,
Jun 16, 7:08am
I paid an insulation installer for the whole house, and an electrician to rewire the whole house. Neither of them knew that TPS wiring on top of polystyrene insulation would sink deep into the insulation.
Since the public registrations are closed, you must have an invite from a current member to be able to register and post in this thread.
Have an account? Login here.